JR notes, 2001: For one brief and strange moment, I was thrust into the bizarre career path of the 4 Non Blondes. At the time I was offered a chance to do this interview, I was already all done with the 4 Non Blondes song “What’s Up,” and the rest of their debut album, Bigger Better Faster More, wasn’t any of these things. On the other hand, did I have something better to do than interview the lead singer of a female-fronted rock outfit on the brink of stardom? The actual interview turned out to be another matter entirely. Instead of just dropping a few hot-headed quotes on me, Linda spoke with me for an extended period. The result was a flawed but interesting look at an outspoken woman in rock who expressed a number of contradictory viewpoints on fame, other female performers, and success within a male-dominated genre. The real scoop was provoked by my mention of Heart, which led to a confession on Perry’s part about how her stereotypes about other female performers weren’t always fair or valid. Her story about Heart’s struggle to avoid hairspray marketing is the most memorable part of this interview. Although in my mind Perry never really justifies her criticism of female performers who use their sexuality and femininity to succeed, it makes for an excellent discussion.

The arc of the 4 Non Blondes remains one of the shortest and most jarring in rock history. At the time of this interview, they seemed poised for a breakout success, and indeed they did achieve it - their debut album went on to sell a staggering five million copies on the strength of only one radio single, “What’s Up,” which may be a Karaoke standard today but did not even crack the top ten when it was released. The band broke up not long after the first tour ended, for reasons I was unable to determine, so Linda Perry’s meditation on stardom and her chance to redefine the image of women in rock ended abruptly. She pursued a solo career but did so out of the spotlight.

No Blonde Hair,
No Hairspray

by Jon Reed

Stardom is even less fair than life. Some bands slog their way through the club scene for years, writing increasingly cynical songs about the callous corporate music industry. Meanwhile, Linda Perry, lead singer of 4 Non Blondes, is going about her business in a bizarre parallel universe, where talent is promptly rewarded by a friendly invitation from the American Top Forty welcoming committee.

As offensive as it sounds, struggle is a matter of perspective. When Perry wanted to be in a rock band, she had no trouble finding a good one. When she wanted a record label that wouldn't treat her band as a girl-fronted gimmick act, Perry got that too (Interscope). She once had the presumption to imagine touring with Aerosmith - six months later Perry is sharing the stage with Steven Tyler.

Linda Perry is one of the strongest female voices to swagger into rock 'n roll since Janis Joplin, although only time will tell whether the still-unfair Joplin comparison is truly valid. For now, there's an energetic record, a Top 40 single ("What's Up?") and a sprawling style that could lead Perry and 4 Non Blondes (three women, one man) in many different directions. Perry knows that all bets are still on - fate could land the band anywhere between obscurity and immortality.

But if sheer nerve and good luck are all you need, then Linda Perry will know success. In exchange for her brazen forays into the masculine world of rock, she's also going to learn something about controversy. At times, Perry's nonchalant confidence leaves her out an unconventional limb, but she is not the least bit afraid of falling.

The Optimist: 4 Non Blondes are hard to categorize on a number of levels. There's a real variety to your sound.

Linda Perry: I really have a hard time labeling myself, so I can't label the music that we do. We never sat down and said, "OK, this is the plan, we're going to be a girl rock band, and I'm going to get dreds, and I'm going to be really crazy on stage, and Christa you look really androgynous." We didn't have a plan. We're not ashamed to be influenced. I've tapped my foot many times to different singers. For me to even think that everything that comes out of me is 100% original, I would have to be a complete, totally-into-myself, high and mighty jerk. We're all very aware of that. We use our influences and put 4 Non Blondes on top of it. We love funk, we love country, we love everything. I swear to God, we could have a whole country album if we wanted to.

The Optimist: Who are your vocal influences?

Perry: Janis Joplin. It's totally obvious. I've never had the privilege of seeing her, but I've got all the documentary footage of her. And then I like Barbra Streisand. She is a very intellectual, very strong person. I admire anybody, male or female, that has power, that is in control of their life. I love Led Zeppelin, I love Aerosmith. For six months, I've been running around giving interviews and people would ask, "Who do you want to go on tour with?" Six months ago I was saying "Aerosmith - I want to go on tour with Aerosmith." Everybody laughed at me. They said, "You're living in a dream world. They're never going to go out with a band like you guys. You guys are too different - you're girls." I said, "If they can take on a band like Jackyl, they can take on 4 Non Blondes." Six months later, we had it. I went back to the company, flipped them all off, and said, "Fuck you."

The Optimist: How have you been received by Aerosmith fans?

Perry: It's a challenge. The first 2, 3 songs are a little shaky. Once we play "What's Up?" people sink into us more, and then they say, "All right, they loosened us up, let's see what they can do." After "What's Up?" we just kick in another side of 4 Non Blondes. We have a very heavy rock side to us that you can't really hear on the record because it wasn't there. At the end of our set, we win over the people. They definitely applaud. They're definitely there.

As for Aerosmith, I think we surprised the hell out of them too. They watched our first show completely. After our set, this person came up behind my back, put their hands around me, and gave me a big kiss. I looked back, and it was Steven Tyler, and I almost melted. I was like "Oh my God," I was shaking, and he said, "That was beautiful. That was great." That made everything for me. We're getting more out of this tour than anybody could ever imagine. We're getting the knowledge of longevity. We want to be around ten years from now. We don't want to be one of those bands that came and disappeared.

The Optimist: There is a sense of moral responsibility and dissatisfaction with society in your music. Is that "message" something you're trying to hold on to as you get more successful?

Perry: There's not a message. Since I write the lyrics, I don't want to be pigeonholed into a person who's out there preaching these songs. If you read the lyrics, there isn't a story being set up for you. You have to use your imagination to get the best out of the songs - if you choose to do that. I just want people to know that they can have what they want, but they have to get up off their ass. People just need to stop being lazy.

The Optimist: The "women in rock" angle has been downplayed by the group. You've brought on Roger Rocha on guitar, and even when you had only women in the group, 4 Non Blondes was never strictly defined as a female rock band. But there's no question that there's a shortage of women in rock right now. How does this affect your band?

Perry: I got confused for a while because I didn't understand the question. It kept being brought up: "What is it like being a woman in a man-dominated business?" It didn't make any sense to me, because I didn't live that way; I don't see life that way - I don't put myself in that vulnerable position. But there is a shortage of women in rock 'n roll. They want to see women be women in this business. They want to see the Janet Jacksons and the Madonnas and the Mariah Careys and the Samantha Foxes that run around and look like women and act like women and do the women thing. The unfortunate thing they forget about the Madonnas and the Janet Jacksons is that those women have a lot of strength behind them. I can't stand Madonna's music, but as a female she's a very powerful person.

I think people forget about that part of the woman. We're not just all tits and ass and good looks. Especially in this band, we're not like that at all - we're very aggressive women, we have a very androgynous side about us, and I'm not too sure what's going to happen. I don't know if it's discouraging record sales for us or not. It's too soon to find out, but I think there's going to be a few scared people. I have women that run up to me, and are straight, and say, "I don't know what it is, but I find myself really attracted to you. I don't know." It makes you go "yeah." That excites. I love that straight women come up to me and their boyfriends won't let their girlfriends come near me. I've had guys that say, "I have to get your autographs for my girlfriend," and I say "Where's your girlfriend?" and they say, "Well, she's totally in love with you and I don't even want her near you."

The Optimist: Janet Jackson and Mariah Carey are strong women in their way, but they tend to rely on a very feminine presentation, whereas 4 Non Blondes is more of a traditional male rock 'n roll image of "we play our own music, we work up a sweat, we get in your face." It makes sense that women would be turned on by that.

Perry: But there's the L7s and the Babes in Toylands, and I'm not familiar with everybody else out there, but other female bands are up and coming. The only difference between us and L7 is that we're hitting the Top 40 - we're hitting mainstream. If we can give it a boost, I hope we can. I hope we can show that you can be a woman with balls on stage, not wear high heels and get your point across. You can be a power behind it all as well. We handle everything. We take care of everything. Our record company knows what not to say to us and what to say to us.

The Optimist: In the long run, musicianship and the ability to play good rock means more than your image. Look at Heart, who started out in rock and roll and then got sanitized by the hairspray marketing approach.

Perry: I had the privilege to interview Ann and Nancy for Interview Magazine. I love old Heart. I love everything from the beginning to Bebe Le Strange, and I love Rock the House Live, but then there was Bad Animals and the other hairspray one, and I was burned completely. During the interview, I was very upfront about it. I told them that I'm not a loyal fan. I said, "I loved you guys before this happened but I don't love you now." They showed me a new light on this whole woman thing. They said, "We were directed in that area. The record company was fighting us on going that direction." Technology in recording studios took a jump and they said that they went a little crazy and they were experimenting with their image.

The media and the record company were pushing them into that direction. Ann said they hate those records. They don't listen to them. The label brought in other people to write music for them. It seemed like the company didn't want old Heart anymore - the wanted a new rendition of Heart. And then the video - I guess Ann was imperfect; she gained a little weight. What' the big deal - look at fuckin' Meatloaf. Ann had no idea they were just filming her stretched out. When they got the final video, it was just Ann's face and her stretched out. She said that it was a blow to her soul. Nobody wanted to see Ann Wilson imperfect.

The Optimist: What an excellent lesson in marketing.

Perry: I was in awe talking to them. It cleared things up for me. I know it was the media; it was MTV; it was the record company that screwed them over. It wasn't really them. You get pigeonholed into these things. Record companies come around and they get scared. When 4 Non Blondes was being pursued by record companies, they all loved us. The CBSs, the Virgins, the Atlantics - everybody loved 4 Non Blondes, but they got scared, because we were not the typical looking girls. But then Interscope came around and said, "Let's make a record and we'll figure out marketing later," and we said, "Right on. Let's go."

The Optimist: That's unusual. For women in rock, the norm has been to let the record companies set the tone and pay the consequences later.

Perry: We are very aggressive. I deal a lot with the record company. They know - I'm a control freak. I cannot give one percent of control to anybody in my life. My life is 100% mine and nobody else's. Dealing with the company, they know what to push and what not to. At the end of all this, if we make one record or ten records, I just want to get out of here with respect. I want people to respect 4 Non Blondes and the individuals in it.

The Optimist: Respect is important, but what about success?

Perry: I would love to sit here and truly believe that 4 Non Blondes is going to be here ten years from now, but it's just not possible to plan anything like that. We want to push 4 Non Blondes as far as it can go, but we have a greater ambition as individuals. There's so many things I want to do. I have to go at it one at a time. Christa, Dawn, and Roger all have their ideas too. We all are using each other to get where we want to go. Right now, our main focus is getting 4 Non Blondes as far as we can. I want people to see us on stage and know that we're putting everything we can into it. We're too new to really know exactly what we're capable of doing.

The Optimist: What advice do you have for the struggling bands that have watched your quick ascendancy?

Perry: Who am I to give advice? People just have to be smart. If something doesn't feel right, then you shouldn't do it. Sometimes you're going to hurt other people because something doesn't feel right to you, but that's life. It's either hurt yourself of hurt somebody else. I know that sounds really harsh, but that's the way it is. You have to stay true to who you are.